Template talk:Navbox nations

Micro, medium, large

subjective terms, what makes a nation micro medium or large ? --SherbetS (talk) 21:17, 25 March 2025 (UTC)

That is a GREAT question T_T because HOW is Eurelia a medium nation? I mean, are we basing this off player count or resources? If it's playercount, LS, Eurelia, and FORSEQ are the real major nations. If it's resources, Eurelia is POOR! Why are they medium? Shakingh myh headh --Bronze

add Regulus Trade Federation, Civia - kingsheep3

reply to Bronze, Eurelia is Medium because while they have HELLA NUMBERS, they're broke and don't do much. If I remember how it was explained, it was less size and more influence? But it is VERY subjective, and could probably use some re-working or solidification.- Neb

Let's actually talk about this and define a nation's size.

|| There are a couple of ways to define a nation's size. I mentioned playercount a while ago, Neb mentioned influence, but is that political or physical influence? Can a nation be large if it's hiding behind a large ally? I propose the following (for combatant nations; this realistically cannot apply to TC3 or other pacifist nations), using Dominion as a guideline.

All of these are based on individual prowess. Resources gifted to nations from allies / military aide shouldn't be included.

Micro: Can not realistically stomach the loss of, or often deploy, any t2 ships

Small: Can safely deploy individual T2 Corvettes (for AI hunting or piracy) without fear of going bankrupt, has basic core manufacturing infrastructure. Most likely owns a Claimable System (These aren't too hard to buy if you know what you're looking for, though there may be too many nations for this to still be true), may or may not have infrastructure.

Medium: Can deploy fleets of T2 Corvettes, has access to T1 Supers. Has a foothold in deep space, and is a formidable opponent for any smaller nations when formed. Most likely has an advanced core manufacturing system to afford Barges and Assault Destroyers.

Large: Can deploy and support a Large Core (or multiple) ship, has a standing army (@combatant) of logons, and understands fleet compositions. Uses Logistics Ships for survivability, and, when fully formed, will always win in a fight against any smaller nation. All but owns a Mining System, such as Vega with Vertigo or Lonestar with Fault.

|| 30/9/26 Bronze (Talk | Contribs) (Edited)

woulnt ctf be a meium nation then? - Kingsheep3

To fix the issue with that not applying well to non-combatant nations, I would suggest that it be measured on multiple metrics from 1-4 (1 being micro, 4 being large) such as playercount, skill, resources, etc, and to take the average from those - Deuterium

The day I call CTF a medium nation is the day I see you deploy & properly support a T1 super. IIRC bolt doesn't have core manufacturing stuff, and you can't deploy a fleet of t2 corvs because you're not well organized enough. || 1/10/26 Bronze (Talk | Contribs)

(Replying to Deuterium): I do agree with ranking individual skills, though now we have to decide on enough civil and war-based categories for it. || 1/10/26 Bronze (Talk | Contribs)

I'm fairly sure CTF owns a barge (Potentially two?), though I personally doubt they could properly support supercaps in combat or that they own warship supercaps in the first place. As for categories, I would suggest for civilian would be resources, manpower, development (by this i dont just mean industry though of course it counts, but also having proper settlements and structure), and activity. For military I would just use what you outlined in your earlier post, maybe adjusted a bit to also count average military combat skill? - Deuterium

|| Okay, so, categories... I guess we'd scale this off the best Nation on the server in each category, so we'd use..

|| Vega as a benchmark for resources,

|| Lonestar for playercount,

|| Probably Vega for settlement development if we're going off raw numbers (2 Trade Cities + LeMaire's base), or Radiance off looks simply because they're like... REALLY GOOD at building? See: Cicatrix, literally any settlement owned by Radiant members.

|| I don't know how I feel about activity as a category, since that's basically just playercount...

|| Response time would probably fit & go to lonestar since they have more logons,

|| Vega definitely has a stronger fleet ethic, and by extension more combatant successes. I don't know if it's fair to take average militant skill, since Vega by definition is a more exclusive club & therefore has less noobs bringing down the average; I mean, even combatant skill, lonestar puts just about anyone in Medium Reactor Core ships to try to take advantage of their numbers.

|| Is it Vega glaze if it's right?

|| Between lonestar and Vega, ship design has to go to Vega (I mean, the lonestarian Lancer and Industrial Command Ship are both just an elongated t1 Battlecruiser and Barge respectively, though I must admit I haven't seen the T2 Capital+ ship designs of Ascendant Nova or MR192, who I've seen have quite good ship designs. Radiance would also be a contender for aesthetics, but again, would take individual auditing of their ships and a comparison.

|| 1/10/26 Bronze (Talk | Contribs) (Edited)

i ont ONLY live at bolt an o inuustry sttuff there, when will he learn abt the fact u acan have multiple stations?

also i ont use t2 corvs bc im ba at t2 svs

also, you sai CAN. CAN eploy fleets of t2 corvs. so what if i have lets say, 50 t2 corvs at supersecret station 1. i COUL eploy t2 corvs

Going to go through these one by one; yes, you can have multiple stations, but CTF has not shown any evidence that they've even made a Medium Reactor Core since the Dominion Update released, and we can therefore assume that they haven't made a medium core since the Dominion Update released. T2 SvS is identical to T1 SvS, just with a touch more care put into your ship and combat ethic because you can't spam T2s (They cost up to 200x as much as T1s). Even if you have 50 Tier 2 Corvettes sitting at a random station, the fact that you haven't deployed them is evidence enough that you cannot deploy them. "Can" isn't just that you "technically have 50 corvs sitting in a random station," it's that you can utilize them properly and stomach losing them. If you notice, I didn't say CTF was too poor to deploy T2 corvs, I said it was that, and I quote, "you can't deploy a fleet of t2 corvs because you're not well organized enough." || 1/10/26 Bronze (Talk | Contribs) (Edited)

I have a Genius Idea : Drop the subcategories entirely and also drop defunct nations into a special defunct navbox if you want to keep them around -Griff